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Thire™
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Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:37 am

Admin(s) Don't Know Rules?

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:30 am

"Ramboing Cavalry"
Player Name: Toju_Nishiyama
Admin Name: Dr_Rapsy, Dr_Raspy, Dr_Ratsy, or something like that
My Team: Austria
Admin's Team: Prussia

-----------------------------------------
Description of Events
-----------------------------------------
On 05/03/2019 at around 7:45 GMT, a couple of friends and myself were playing on EU Commander like we always do. I had grabbed Cavalary while my firends had infantry. We have been playing on the server since 2017, so we are very familiar with the rules and often bitch at people that like to break them when admins aren't online (even if the offenders are on our own team). During the 1st round of Austria vs Prussia, Austria (our team) was getting their shit pushed in by the Prussians (the admin's team). A mass charge of 3 Prussian lines (not all at full strength) and a unit of Hussars began to move towards our artillery, in a reaction to save the artillery and kill a multitude of spread out infantry, I charged with my full unit of cavalary into the mass. While my unit managed to kill quite a few, ultimately I knew the charge was lost, however, before I was able to pull back with the remainder of my men, I was slain for "Rambo Cav Charge."

Image

This slay occurred in the middle of my unit's charge and I still had men left alive. As many well know, when you order a charge, the individual bots will charge the bot/player that is the closest to when the order wall called. What I am driving at is that half of my men attacked the mass on the right side of the hill of where our arty was, while the rest of my unit joined me on the left side of the hill. One unit that I had charged was a small unit of Prussian Foot Guards (about 7-9 total strength). Two of my bots and myself where attacking this group specifically while about 5 more were right next to myself attacking the mass aswell. Fast forward towards the end of the engagement, the foot guard unit was at about 2 men left standing (the commander and a bot) and I was still mounted continuing the attack. This unit was the admin's and as I swong my sword and killed his last bot, I was slain by him. At first I thought I might had died to a Prussian Hussar that was on my ass, but no. Up until the point of my death I was not paying attention to the rest of my forces on the right side of our artillery as the engagement lasted about 1-2 minutes and I was focused on destroying the Foot Guards. However it turned out that the right group of my unit did much better and a few had survived past my death until there was one mounted unit left which I spawned as. Once I spawned back in I returned to friendly forces and proceeded to ask the admin why I had been slain.

Originally I thought the admin had been spectating and wasn't fully paying attention to my charge when I had been slain, nevertheless I was angry in being slain for something that I had not done and several people on the other team had been witness to in dead chat (my friend told me as he was dead). Now, sure, it would have been kind of a gray area if I had or had not actually Rambo Cav Charged if it were not for these facts:
After being slain, I respawned as another bot that was mounted and still charging (immediately after I pulled off)
The Admin was an infantry unit on the ground charging uphill to enemy artillery (he could not see on the other side of the hill and was focused on opening the admin panel to slay me) and did not check how many bots in my unit were still alive
If I had been too far from my unit, I would deal no damage to the enemy (indicating to him that if he had looked to see if I have bots alive, they must be close)
He was on the opposite team from me (There's a bias already established)
After my death, my unit was still dying as shown on the scoreboard

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First Interaction With Admin
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*Before continuing, no, I don't have the logs of exactly what was said because my game crashed shortly after being banned*
Now, what became of the situation? How did I know that the admin was apart of the enemy team and on the ground? What was the conversation?
Myself: Now being angry at the time didn't help of course, I admit that, but I had asked him "Are you retarded?" in all chat.
[Meanwhile I figured out that he was on the enemy team and he was the last one left with no bots and the next round I figured out that he was the foot guard unit]
Admin: He replied with something along the lines of "Don't use that language"
[Of which afterwards I did not use "bad words"]
Myself: I then accepted that and began pressing him on his decision "Okay but why was I slain?"
Admin: Something like "Rabmo Cav Charge"
Myself: I then told him "I charged with my unit and there were still men alive"
Admin: He responds with "You were on your own"
Myself: To which I respond "No I wasnt. I just spawned mounted"
Admin: "No you didn't"
[From his position, no, he obviously couldn't see the rest of my unit in the melee however he most definitely saw me riding on horseback away from the mass]
Myself: I don't recall what I said
[Towards the end when I was the last man before going into melee (to avoid further reason for rule breaking) I dismounted and fought the Prussian Horde]
[The next round started and I was still heated]
Myself: "You're a great admin"
[Yea I was being sarcastic]
Admin: "I know" or "Thanks"
Myself: "Can you at least apologizing for making a bad call?"
Admin: "No"
[I don't remember if anything else was said past this but we carried on with the 2nd round, whilst thinking that this admin is just another classic M&B admin ruining a cool server]

----------------------------------------------------------
Second Interaction With Admin
----------------------------------------------------------
Now, towards the end of the round, my friends and I were still discussing the admin and what unit he actually was in the previous round. Meanwhile the Austrian team once again was getting their shit pushed in and the last man alive was a Cav Unit who had charged into the Prussian Horde. However, before he could do anything, the admin slayed him, ending the map. At this point, my friends and I were tilted as fuck because he had done it again. Then we began pressing the admin again for answers, while symultaniously looking for a steam group or any information on who host's the server in order to look for the rules and report him.

Friend: "Why'd you slay him"
Admin: "He was going to die anyway"
Myself: "He was continuing the charge just like I was"
Admin: "If you want to report me go to Nwpublic.com"
[At this point I believe he said that he would give temp bans to people that were still talking about it when I was typing my message.]

One of my friends leaves, while myself and another friend continue to ask questions. My friend continues to talk about the events that just took place when I was typing up my message about the rules. Shortly after I send my message, I get banned and my game crashes so I am unable to take pictures of the chat log. Shortly after I get banned, my friend does too and we both head off. 

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Conclusion
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What do I want from this incident? Why am I typing this long ass post?
To be honest after the slay happened, I just wanted the admin to admit that he had fucked up and that he's sorry. However, the pattern clearly continued and probably will still continue unless he 1) Learns the rules on Calvary and 2) Pays attention to Cav charges more. Maybe if admins are wanting to admin in the server, they actually spectate and fully admin, rather than play on a team and admin at the same time. In all actuality, you pay more attention to "rule breaking" players on the opposite team than you do on your own team. For example: Before my slaying charge, I had made contact with enemy medium horse and killed all but 1 mounted, of which this mounted Commander continued to stay mounted and gallop around his friendly forces. This player was never slayed or warned to dismount and join friendly units. This server has been our go-to for a long ass time and we hate to see it ruined by admin(s) that don't enforce the rules and/or make up new rules when they admin.
 
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Ed112
Senior EU Commander Admin
Senior EU Commander Admin
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:47 pm

Re: Admin(s) Don't Know Rules?

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:23 pm

Hello Toju_Nishiama,

Thank you for your very detailed report, I have found the incident in question in the logs and will be examining it further;

19:48:06 - [SERVER]: Dr_Rask Slayed Player Toju_Nishiama.

Before a decision is made I will have to consult the rest of the senior leadership team.

Regards,

Ed112
 
User avatar
Ed112
Senior EU Commander Admin
Senior EU Commander Admin
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:47 pm

Re: Admin(s) Don't Know Rules?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:05 am

Hello Toju_Nishiama,

I have examined the logs in detail and will post my report on the logs below however for convenience I will list the main points below;

1.      In relation to the evidence and Rask’s testimony he was within his right to slay you for Rambo as from his vantage point you were lone mounted and riding circles round his bots with no mounted units in sight.
 
While it is true your bots were in charge it is clear from the logs that this been against another line under the control of FriendlyBandit, and when your slay occurred it was as a result of you either riding away from the main charge or your bots hitting the wrong unit.
 
2.      Rask was also within his right to temp ban both you and your friend, as your behavior was completely unacceptable in how you continued to persist in flaming Rask over his decision to slay.
 
If a genuine mistake was made on his part then it would have been much more prudent to have said this was because your men split off from you and this is why you were lone mounted in his area of the battlefield, but instead you were rude and provocative which eventually led to being temp banned.
 
3.      In relation to admin bias this is simply not the case, all our admins on our server react to rule breaking as to when and if they see rule breaking occur, with it being wholly uninfluenced by which team an admin is playing on.
 
4.      From the verbal communication it is clear Rask allowed things to become too heated in his communication with you, and this led to unprofessional communication on his part but this was a result of prolonged flaming and will be discussed how better to react to a situation such as this in the future.

Below you will find the full investigation into the incident for both the public record and the logic behind the summary above;

(Toju_Nishiama summary of the incident)
 
What I am driving at is that half of my men attacked the mass on the right side of the hill of where our arty was, while the rest of my unit joined me on the left side of the hill. One unit that I had charged was a small unit of Prussian Foot Guards (about 7-9 total strength). Two of my bots and myself where attacking this group specifically while about 5 more were right next to myself attacking the mass aswell. Fast forward towards the end of the engagement, the foot guard unit was at about 2 men left standing (the commander and a bot) and I was still mounted continuing the attack. This unit was the admin's and as I swong my sword and killed his last bot, I was slain by him. At first I thought I might had died to a Prussian Hussar that was on my ass, but no. Up until the point of my death I was not paying attention to the rest of my forces on the right side of our artillery as the engagement lasted about 1-2 minutes and I was focused on destroying the Foot Guards. However it turned out that the right group of my unit did much better and a few had survived past my death until there was one mounted unit left which I spawned as. Once I spawned back in I returned to friendly forces and proceeded to ask the admin why I had been slain.
 
(Rask’s Testimony)

“The painting is flipped the wrong side it is mirrored and there were about half an arty reg 4-6 line inf and 2-4 cuirassiers dismounted. He were circling my units still in charge so I looked around to see where his regiments was but I couldn’t see any other cav than hussars charging on my left side together with Bandit(FriendlyBandit), so I slayed him (Toju)”
 
(Battle with FriendlyBandit’s Infantry, which Toju_Nishiama is involved directly in)
 
19:47:48 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:48 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_horseimpact> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:50 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:50 - Toju_Nishiama <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:51 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:51 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
19:47:52 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
19:47:53 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:53 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:53 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_horseimpact> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:54 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Hussar
19:47:54 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
19:47:56 - Prussian Hussar <img=ico_swordone> Austrian Cuirassier
19:47:56 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:47:57 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Hussar
19:47:57 - FriendlyBandit <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
19:47:58 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
 
(Rask fighting artillerists away from the main charge of Toju_Nishiama’s unit)
 
19:47:59 - Dr_Rask <img=ico_swordone> Austrian Artillerist
19:48:00 - Prussian Hussar <img=ico_swordone> Austrian Artillerist  
 
(Rask’s foot guard killed by Toju_Nishiama, which after consultation with Rask was a situation in which Toju_Nishiama was lone mounted riding circles around the line which resulted in his decision to slay, and that the bots near Toju were dismounted)
 
19:48:01 - FriendlyBandit <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
19:48:02 - Toju_Nishiama <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Foot Guard
19:48:04 - Prussian Hussar <img=ico_swordone> Austrian Cuirassier
19:48:06 -  <img=ico_punch> Toju_Nishiama
 
19:48:06 - [SERVER]: Dr_Rask Slayed Player Toju_Nishiama.
 
(What remains of Toju_Nishiama’s men on the otherside of the hill, are killed and presumably Tojo_Nishiama respawns into the last of these bots and moves away as stated in his report)
 
19:48:08 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:48:08 - Austrian Cuirassier <img=ico_swordone> Prussian Line Infantry
19:48:08 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_swordone> Austrian Cuirassier  19:48:08 - Prussian Line Infantry <img=ico_spear> Austrian Cuirassier
 
(Summary of the main incident)
 
It appears from my examination of the logs that Toju_Nishiama charged FriendlyBandit’s Prussian Line Infantry and that Toju_Nishiama switches onto Rask’s unit, away from the main fighting and after consultation with Rask was in a situation where he was lone mounted riding circles round Rask’s line infantry with only dismounted bots near him.
 
Toju_Nishiama did have his unit in a big charge when this incident occurred but as stated Rask could not have known the size of the unit visually as he was on the wrong side of the hill only being engaged by Toju_Nishiama himself.
  
While commanders are allowed to finish their charge they are not allowed to ride away from that charge and as a result riding to another unit as the only mounted man would be Rambo and slayable offence.
 
Even if this was a mistake on Toju_Nishiama’s part to split his men from Rask’s perspective all he could see was a lone mounted commander riding circles round his men. The appropriate response would have been to tell Rask that his cavalry had split but instead goes on to conduct a concentrated period of flaming with his friend Sum_Ting_Wong which both players are justifiably temp banned for later.
 
Toju_Nishiama Post Incident Correspondence

19:48:06 - [SERVER]: Dr_Rask Slayed Player Toju_Nishiama.
19:48:11 - *Admin*[Dr_Rask]: Rambo
19:48:17 - [Toju_Nishiama] Are you retarded?
19:48:25 - [Toju_Nishiama] I've been on a charge?!
19:48:28 - [Dr_Rask] Mind your language
19:48:45 - [Toju_Nishiama] Mind your rediculous slay
19:48:52 - [Toju_Nishiama] I charged with my unit
19:49:02 - [Dr_Rask] You were ramboing dude
19:49:13 - [Toju_Nishiama] What do you define as ramboing?
19:49:25 - [Toju_Nishiama] I charged a mass of enemies with my unit
19:49:26 - [Dr_Rask] Last mounted man in his reg fighting from his mount
19:49:31 - [Toju_Nishiama] Wrong
19:49:48 - [Toju_Nishiama] Because there were still bots charging too
19:49:55 - [Dr_Rask] No they were dismounted
19:50:11 - [Toju_Nishiama] Then why did I spawn just 1 minute ago on a horse?
19:50:16 - [Dr_Rask] You did not
19:50:22 - [Toju_Nishiama] I DID!
19:50:26 - [Toju_Nishiama] Are you blind?
19:50:38 - *DEAD* [[HRE]SX_Fus_Dindu] dude shut the fuck up you were rambo'ing, just dont do it again
19:50:59 - [Toju_Nishiama] Oh I see you're playing on the other team
19:51:04 - *DEAD* [Sum_Ting_Wong] admins shouldnt swear at players
19:51:12 - *DEAD* [[HRE]SX_Fus_Dindu] im not an admin
19:51:28 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] also  prussian cav is doing the same thing
19:51:39 - [Sombra] wich one?
19:51:56 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] prussian cav ramboed my unit at the end and didnt get slayed
19:52:02 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] i want justice
19:52:07 - [Dr_Rask] Name?
19:52:10 - [Sombra] wich type of cav?
19:52:15 - [Toju_Nishiama] Legit there were cav still alive dude, you obviously couldn't see from your perspective on the ground
19:52:31 - [Toju_Nishiama] Theres a hill that was blocking your view
19:53:09 - [Toju_Nishiama] Don't slay unnecessarily
9:54:00 - [Toju_Nishiama] Legit I had men still alive, I didn't break any rule
19:54:05 - [Toju_Nishiama] Continued the charge
19:54:09 - [Dr_Rask] Dude let it go
19:54:22 - [Toju_Nishiama] Can you apologize for a shit call?
19:54:27 - [Dr_Rask] No
19:54:29 - [Toju_Nishiama] At least
19:54:30 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] die in the game die in real life
19:54:31 - [Toju_Nishiama] Nice
19:54:41 - [Toju_Nishiama] You're a great admin
19:54:45 - [Dr_Rask] Thank you
19:54:51 - [Toju_Nishiama] Bias ass
 
(NEW ROUND)
 
19:56:57 - [Toju_Nishiama] You're the admin, admin properly
19:57:09 - [Dr_Rask] Dude if you keep this shit up then i will temp ban you
19:57:17 - [Toju_Nishiama] For what?
19:57:19 - [Dr_Rask] I slayed you because you were ramboing
19:57:34 - [Toju_Nishiama] How? I had men alive
20:02:14 - [Toju_Nishiama] No matter what you say
20:02:21 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] his men had just been killed and he was still in melee
20:02:42 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] you just wanted to end the round faster
20:03:02 - [Dr_Rask] Lol he would have died within a minute anyways dude
20:03:25 - [Dr_Rask] He needs to follow exactly the same rules as everybody else
20:03:32 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] just saying its annoying when you abuse admin powers
20:03:32 - [Dr_Rask] There are no exceptions
20:03:50 - [Dr_Rask] If you want to report me go to our website Nwpublic.com
20:03:54 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] so in the middle of a melle he has to stop to dismount???
20:04:00 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] that makes no sense
20:04:02 - [Toju_Nishiama] I love how you slayed me when my men were on the other side of the hill that you couldn't see because you were playing as inf on the other side
20:04:08 - [Dr_Rask] He needs to ride to his friendlies and dismount
20:04:13 - Toju_Nishiama is banned temporarily.
20:04:13 - [SERVER]: Dr_Rask Temporary Banned Player Toju_Nishiama.
20:04:14 - Toju_Nishiama has left the game with ID: 1922498
20:04:17 - *Admin*[Dr_Rask]: Warned
20:04:25 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] their were no friendlies left retard
20:04:36 - *Admin*[Dr_Rask]: Mind your language
20:04:50 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] says the guy swearing at players
20:04:59 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] sorry for offending you snowflake
20:05:06 - [Sum_Ting_Wong] gonna tell your mom on me?
20:05:12 - [Hannah] kick him, he's being abusive now
20:05:15 - Sum_Ting_Wong is banned temporarily.
20:05:15 - [SERVER]: Dr_Rask Temporary Banned Player Sum_Ting_Wong.
 
(Summary)
 
Rask was patient with both Toju_Nishiama and Sum_Ting_Wong who both flamed Rask for a prolonged period of time, blowing a very small incident up much bigger than it needed to be and Rask was justified in temp banning both individuals.
 
Rask would have been better to temp ban the individuals earlier rather than engage verbally with them leading to greater frustration and inappropriate behaviour such as this “19:57:09 - [Dr_Rask] Dude if you keep this shit up then i will temp ban you” however Rask has been warned in regards to this to stay better composed under pressure in the future.

This Case is now considered closed.

Regards,

Ed112
 

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