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Gaz
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Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:46 pm

FILL THE FORM BELOW. ALL INFORMATIONS ARE MANDATORY. FOR YOUR COMPLAINT TO BE EXAMINED, YOU NEED TO FILL OUT THE DISPLAYED FORM THOROUGHLY WITH THE CORRECT INFORMATION.
IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU WRITE A SERIOUS AND MATURE COMPLAINT IN PROPER ENGLISH.

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The map in question: Custom Map 8 

The issue with map: 

Hello everyone!

My issue with the map is that there is only one route of attack since the update that is obvious to players and that is to go through the door. The door in question i am referring is the one just before the flag, next to the house that has a portcullis now (More on that one later though). My issue with it now is that since there is only one door, that is the height and width of the character model it is very easy to camp and well lock people out entirely (Screenshots will be provided in the Additional comments section) and with two sappers you can easily keep the entire team off the flag with ease while your team sits there and shoots anyone that tires to undig it. The map now (unlike how it used to be) seems to make sapper ramps the only way to get around that little problem. But a big problem with this is that there may not always be a sapper that knows how to do that and if the other team does this well you are stuck out there for both the rounds.


Additional comments (you may also add images to visualise):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... 1131443386
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... 1131420898

Now it wouldn't be productive of me to just come here and complain and not offer a solution to the issue. The door in question that is the topic of this complain, make it taller and wider to allow for more people to get through it and it removes the issue of blocking people out entirely. Also an idea would be to remove the portcullis at the only other entrance to the house which in turn would give the attackers another obvious rout into the flag area that does not involve sapper ramps. 

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Isaac
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:00 pm

there is more than one door you can go around the back and there is a much bigger door way to get in. I mean yeah this map does need some more edits to it and yes that door way does need fixing because I've had a couple of rounds where they would just have a sapper building defence there all the time. the problem is it's not only this map that needs updating or changing there our others maps. 

so will make a list for Futui and he can change them all. 
roses are red violets are blue pornhub is down your facebook will do.
 
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Gaz
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:41 pm

there is more than one door you can go around the back and there is a much bigger door way to get in. I mean yeah this map does need some more edits to it and yes that door way does need fixing because I've had a couple of rounds where they would just have a sapper building defence there all the time. the problem is it's not only this map that needs updating or changing there our others maps. 

so will make a list for Futui and he can change them all. 
The reason i say obvious attack routes is to do with the general population of Mini siege being mindless. For people to use the back one it is normally the more screwed in people who have a idea about what they are doing. Also yeah i could make more things about other maps but i didnt bother wasting my breath because even when i was a admin nothing happened even when i raised my hatred towards a lot of the updates when they first came out.

Don't try and fix something that isn't broken. 
 
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Bethrezen
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:36 pm

I support the change proposed if it's possible to be implemented.

Another way to the flag is to jump from roof to roof, above the toilet, on the left of that door. I have seen extremely few players doing it. Perhaps if it could be made a bit more obvious and easier (walking on a plank instead of having to jump).
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Gaz
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:53 pm

I support the change proposed if it's possible to be implemented.

Another way to the flag is to jump from roof to roof, above the toilet, on the left of that door. I have seen extremely few players doing it. Perhaps if it could be made a bit more obvious and easier (walking on a plank instead of having to jump).
Again as i said obvious routes, like the one where you can run along a wall and over a roof to get into flag. No one uses that apart from people who have a general idea about what they are doing. I know how all of this works, you cant tailor to one group. 

The two groups being: the people who are really good and the people who don't really know what they are doing. Easy way to think about it is that the general population of Mini will take the most clear route forward while the people who know what they are doing will take the route that people know less. That's why you have at the very least two clear routes that you can take. I am fully aware that there is a back gate on the map but that goes back to my point that the general population will take the easiest route. Anyway i'm glad that this is having some traction cheers for reading. 

EDIT:

I just thought of a example i could give, on the lighthouse map there is a tunnel that takes you to the second tier of the fort (Atleast there used to be cant remember if its been removed/changed) No one uses that apart from the people that know what they are doing, to the general population there is no tunnel what so ever.
 
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[32nd]Diamond63
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:31 pm

I personally don't agree with these changes, since most of the maps are in favor of the attackers. If you have average defending team, it never wins. :P
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Gaz
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:57 pm



I personally don't agree with these changes, since most of the maps are in favor of the attackers. If you have average defending team, it never wins. :P
And i disagree with you that the maps in the recent updates have taken a shift to be attacker bias, If you have a average attacker team you do not win as attacker. Really what it comes down to, what team is more average than the other.

And you disagree about fixing a way to 100% block a entrance and promote sapper ladders to get around it? What ever floats your boat i guess 
 
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[32nd]Diamond63
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:15 pm

All maps have multiple entrances, not our fault that people don't use them. Every map can be won easily as attackers, just need to know where to go. And on some maps good arty support is needed. Nothing else. Some maps are way too hard for defenders, they spawn where attackers can kill them easily. So I would say that if you include player IQ and map qualities, most of the maps are pretty balanced. But like I said, in some cases, if defenders are not average, they always lose, which happens a lot. Same happens for attackers, but we usually balance it with experienced admins, who play as attackers.

Every new idea is welcomed, this is just my personal opinion, that maps are already very much in favor of attackers. So don't mind me, I am just expressing my opinion, same as you. :)
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Gaz
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:40 pm

All maps have multiple entrances, not our fault that people don't use them. Every map can be won easily as attackers, just need to know where to go. And on some maps good arty support is needed. Nothing else. Some maps are way too hard for defenders, they spawn where attackers can kill them easily. So I would say that if you include player IQ and map qualities, most of the maps are pretty balanced. But like I said, in some cases, if defenders are not average, they always lose, which happens a lot. Same happens for attackers, but we usually balance it with experienced admins, who play as attackers.

Every new idea is welcomed, this is just my personal opinion, that maps are already very much in favor of attackers. So don't mind me, I am just expressing my opinion, same as you. :)
I still fully disagree with you that the maps are harder for defenders. Some maps are very much defender bias. Example being the mansion map before it got updated with more ways to get into it. That i can say has been the best map update that has been put up on Minisiege. And if your trying to get into the point that each map has two entrances, what about the lighthouse map when you are at the second tier? One way which is up the stairs then you turn left and there is another one way door (that is about 4 people wide) Really your point that you need a good defender team means little if you look at it this way. You do not need a good defending team, you just need the attacking team to be worse. Also if i am not mistaken every map has a protected spawn so no there is no spawn killing in most if not all the maps.

Also you mention that some maps need good arty support which also adds to the randomness of it. Because if the arty is bad and there are no breaches made it does not matter how good the attacking team is as they can not get into the fort. A example of which would be Fort Bashir. If you have bad arty you don't even get in unless you have a sapper ramp.

Also I've played the maps enough and complained about them when i was staff before i got removed without being told as i was busy with college as i started. But ive already spoken to Highlord about that one. :)  
 
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Maximilien
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Re: Issue with Custom Map 8

Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:38 am

Map 8 was supposed to be Hougoumont. That's why I wouldn't have made any major modification.

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